Episode 9: Dr. Marty Greer, DVM JD: Nutrients for your breeding dogs

About Dr. Marty Greer: Dr. Greer is a renowned author, speaker, veterinarian, and canine reproduction specialist. In addition to being the Director of Veterinary Services at Revival Animal Health, she is on the board of the National Animal Interest Alliance (NAIA), the Society for Veterinary Medical Ethics, American Veterinary Medical Law Association, and the Society for Theriogenology.

About Sheryl Bradbury: Sheryl Bradbury is the Owned Brands Manager at Revival Animal Health, where she oversees the Breeder’s Edge, Doc Roy’s, and Vet Basics brands. Sheryl grew up falling asleep in the whelping box and has bred champions from several breeds. Today she raises Grand Basset Griffon Vendeens and Lancashire Heelers. She is the president of the United States Lancashire Heeler Club and also holds board positions in various dog clubs and animal health foundations. In addition to her breeding experience, Sheryl brings 30 years of product management experience in the veterinary industry to her role at Revival.

Reproduction is a luxury for a dog’s body, and can only happen if the body is already able to take care of its vital organs. We can’t overlook the nutrients that are often missed by the main pet food companies that are important to making a dog as healthy as possible for breeding. Thus, supplements are critical for keeping breeding dogs healthy for reproduction.

Dr. Greer gives some specific examples of the nutrients required for healthy breeding dogs and what they do for the reproductive system, as well as what they do for the puppies’ health.

Dr. Greer also talks about the importance of getting the right nutrients to stud dogs for breeding, in addition to the more commonly-talked about health of the bitch.

Sheryl talks about some of the products Revival Animal Health offers, and how they support dogs’ reproductive health. She goes over the extensive research and development Revival Animal Health goes through to develop their products - making sure that they are created based on current reproductive and nutritional science and are reviewed by experts.

As part of a new partnership, Revival Animal Health is offering Good Breeders $10 off everything in their online store!

Dr. Greer talks about the recent research surrounding folic acid and its benefits. Check out some current research about folic acid and cleft palate in brachycephalic dogs here.

Transcript

INTRO

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Laura Reeves [0:52] Welcome to the Good Dog Pod! I am your host, Laura Reeves, and we have a really great show today. We are being joined by Dr. Marty Greer from Veterinary Village in Wisconsin and also by Sheryl Bradbury, who is the brand manager at Revival Animal Health. Sheryl has some very cool news to share with us during the course of the day about a new partnership between Good Dog and Revival, so we’re very excited about that. We’re talking today about supplements for your breeding animals. Everybody knows pregnant women need extra vitamins. Well, dogs are not much different. Marty, can you tell us a little bit (an overview) of some of the things that you think about when you’re talking about breeding animals, whether they’re males or females?

Dr. Marty Greer [1:44] Sure. And one of the concepts that we need to discuss is that there’s a likelihood that some of the commercial diets are not as nutritionally complete as they need to be for all stages of the dog’s life—and that includes reproduction. Reproduction truly is a luxury of the body, and it’s only going to happen if the body has already been able to take care of its vital organs. Then your body can start thinking about making sperm, making eggs, growing babies—all those parts. So it’s really important that we don’t overlook the micronutrients that sometimes are not mainstream enough for the general pet food company diets to be included in the food.

Laura Reeves [2:24] What are some of those types of nutrients? We talk about DHA and we talk about folic acid and we talk about some of these things. Can you give us some real specific “for examples” of the specific nutrients that we might be looking at in order to make our breeding animals as healthy as they can possibly be? 

Dr. Marty Greer [2:44] Sure. So folic acid, of course, is important to reduce the risk of midline defects, which are primarily thought of as being cleft palates. They can be cleft lips, they can be umbilical hernias, they can be open abdominal walls, spina bifida, a number of those types of midline defects where, during development, the right side and the left side of the body don’t find each other. DHA has been determined (through a really nice study from Canine Companions for Independence) to be essential in brain and eye development for puppies. They were able to prove that with a study of almost 5,000. So those are really important. Hydrates I think aren’t even considered a micronutrient. They are a macronutrient. But carbohydrates, over the last few years, have fallen into some interesting categories of the grain-free diets, so we’ve lost some of the oatmeal, barley, rice, sweetcorn, those kinds of things. And they’ve been replaced by peas, beans, and lentils, which are concerning. And then there’s a lot of other really tiny nutrients that are difficult to really completely follow. The 42Ht D diet that Royal Canin makes does contain some of those nutrients in quantities that are important for the female during her pregnancy, and that’s going to include tyrosine, arginine, taurine, vitamin E, biotin, vitamin A and vitamin C. Now vitamin A we have to be really careful with because excessive amounts of vitamin A (found in things like too much liver or certain supplements) can actually cause midline defects, so it’s important that we’re paying attention to the details. Beta-keratin—there’s just a whole bunch of these little tiny nutrients that we assume are all in our foods, but perhaps are not in the levels that we need for bitches. 

Laura Reeves [4:19] And then we know that there are also important nutrients for our stud dogs to maintain sperm development. And you hit on something earlier that I wanted you to expand on, if you could. Peas, beans, and lentils—there are some questions about how these particular carbohydrate sources are impacting our breeding dogs.

Dr. Marty Greer [4:44] Right, and there aren’t any good studies in the dog, and I would love to see one of the pet food companies or someone who has a vested interest in canine reproduction step up and be able to do some of this, but to date, we don’t have anyone doing that. So the typical young male dog (up until the age of four or five) is probably fine on most of the diets that we feed. But there are changes that happen in the kind of testosterone that is made in the testicles as they get older, and it changes the type of testosterone, which changes the development of the sperm. So at that point, we really need to step up our nutrient profiles for the stud dogs. For the general group of veterinarians, there was a lecture about ten years ago at the therio (theriogenology) conference that was done on this, and unfortunately there’s really no studies, but it consisted of the speaker calling all of the people that are heavy-duty into canine reproduction across the United States and saying to them, “What supplements do you recommend for your stud dogs?” And it came down to: typically there was a fatty acid supplement, there was some kind of an anti-inflammatory (whether it was ICSBCF Plus or one of the other Glyco Flex types of products), sometimes selenium was included in that, and then L-carnatine, which again is the amino acid that we think of as being associated with the heart problems. But L-carnatine is important in the tail function and development in the stud dog’s sperm. So it’s an assortment. It tends to be a little cocktail that most people put together in their practice for their stud dogs.

Laura Reeves [6:07] Interesting. I know, having worked four years for some of the reproductive people out here on the West Coast, green-lipped mussel is one of the ones that I have seen recommended. Is that one that you are familiar with? 

Dr. Marty Greer [6:20] Right, that’s the primary ingredient in the ICFBCF Plus-type products from Glyco Flex and those types of those things. It seems to have an anti-inflammatory effect without it being a drug. 

Laura Reeves [6:30] Okay. Very cool. And, Sheryl, talk to us about some of the products that Revival has available that are specifically designed and owned and produced there.

Sheryl Bradbury [6:44] Thanks, Laura! Thanks for having me. Actually, just to add to what Dr. Greer is talking about as far as the green-lipped mussel and those types of products, Revival has a product that’s out there that’s been in use by breeders. Besides domestically, we’ve got a few veterinarian breeders that are in Europe that are using it as well and testing it. Oxy Stud has been a product that breeders have depended upon for a long time to supply the vitamin mineral supplement. Also, a really good amino acid profile, as well as a few herbs in there that support the health of the male—his semen, his sperm, his production, and so on. Revival actually just launched a new product called Problem Male. Problem Male does have that mussel product in there, the perna, that supports the healthy semen production as well as horny goat weed and a few other products that help support that male health. Then we also just launched a new product called Get Him Going, which is a supplement (it’s a paste) that they use short-term that has horny goat weed in there, maca, ashwagandha, and so on. There’s a ton of herbs in there to support male health as well. Besides Be Strong that we have in-house and just a lot of different products that support the male specifically. On the female side, we have quite a few herbs that help to get her reproductive system in order and in health. Be Strong is one of those and has been used by breeders across the United States and internationally to basically get her female reproductive system where it needs to be. And again, a healthy reproductive system is going to cycle on a regular basis. It’s going to support egg production and every aspect of that uterus. And then when she’s been bred, we have Oxy Mate that supports the pregnancy with a few different herbs in there and an amino acid profile that’s necessary. And then of course Oxy Mama that supports birth and recovery, as well as milk letdown. The Breeder’s Edge product line is the first and only brand that’s dedicated solely to making sure that our breeders have what they need to have healthier moms and healthier newborns. 

Laura Reeves [8:49] I just love the fact that you’re able to create these, develop these. Talk to us about that process. In-house, what type of development process are you offering? So that people understand how much has gone into developing these products.

Sheryl Bradbury [9:07] Well, we have one person on staff that knows—I swear—everything there is to know about herbs and probiotics, and she does extensive research on that. We also have an amazing nutritionist on retainer with us, Dr. Cheryl Morris, who does a lot of work with the Omaha Doorly Zoo of Conservation. She also has her own company for animal nutrition. She has a PhD in animal nutrition from the University of Illinois. She is the one who reviews our formulations and basically tells us if it’s what we need to have in those products. We have a couple of manufacturers that we utilize that have one of the best manufacturing facilities known. They’re the ones who work through our formulations with us and develop our products with us. And then we also have a cat veterinarian, Dr. Amy Hansen (she’s down in the Topeka area), who we consult with on all of our cat products. Besides having Dr. Greer, who’s amazing, and these other two nutritionists and animal people, we feel as though we have a wealth of knowledge to share with our breeders. Having been a breeder since the early ’80s, and the struggles that I’ve gone through like many other breeders (learning specifically how to be a breeder and then working through all the problems that can come up with birth defects and understanding the genetics of what you’re breeding, your nutritional profile, pre-health screenings like if there’s dysplasia and all of the DNA testing and physical clearances that need to be done), we try to be a mentor for breeders at Revival Animal Health. That’s our goal—to mentor our breeders. Again, with the results of having healthier moms and healthier newborns. 

Laura Reeves [10:43] One of the things that I love (personally) is collaboration. And I love to see good people—Dr. Greer, Revival, and now Good Dog, who is working with Revival and offering access and encouragement to some of their breeders to reach out to Revival for some of this information. 

Sheryl Bradbury [11:06] Revival Animal Health has a staff (a marketing, content, and creative team) that is dedicated to making sure that breeders have all the information that they need. We have a library on our website that talks about everything from “Is she pregnant or isn’t she pregnant?” to eye infections in newborn puppies. Dr. Greer is doing Vet Minutes on just everything under the sun. Like I said, we want to mentor these breeders and we want to offer them, in some situations, the basics of what they need to know through Vet Minutes. And then we also have extensive videos for our customers who need to understand how to use calcium the right way, nowadays. This is 2020. We’ve been using calcium the same way for all these years, and there is more research and more information available on how we should be using calcium to support an efficient, productive whelping or cleaning. A lot of the times, we find that when we’re participating in some of the chat groups and such, that some of the information out there has been passed on from a breeder from 40 years ago that still may work, but in some situations (with some of the different breeds that are out there and some of the challenges—health challenges and DNA and just the genetics of new breeds), that mindset isn’t where it should be anymore, and we need to move forward. That’s what Revival is trying to do: help mentor our breeders. 

Laura Reeves [12:32] So that’s what I’m saying! Collaboration! Talk to us a little bit about this collaboration with Good Dog that Revival Animal Health is offering. 

Sheryl Bradbury [12:41] Well Good Dog is committed to breeders, as we all know. And Revival Animal Health appreciates all the work that you’ve done. Regardless of the breed, as long as they’re doing what they need to do to make sure the animals are healthy, they’re going into good homes, and all the other support that’s necessary—that’s what we’re about as well. To celebrate this partnership with Good Dog, Revival Animal Health is going to be offering, for all Good Dog breeders, $10 off your shopping cart at Revival Animal Health. So that means vaccines, Breeder’s Edge, everything under the sun.

Laura Reeves [13:18] As someone who has ordered from Revival for—I don’t even know how many years—that’s very exciting to me! I think that one of the things that we want to talk about as we’re mentoring our breeders is if we can do a deep dive on a couple of really specific ones. Dr. Greer was mentioning folic acid, which I think is one that we cannot emphasize enough. We’ve done this for Pure Dog Talk. On my other podcast, we’ve done this before, but Marty, can you touch on dosages and where do we find it? Do we find it at Revival? How do we access that? I want people to know: go here, do this, get this much.

Dr. Marty Greer [14:00] Sure. So there’s only one published study that we have that reflects what the dose success rates were, and it was a study done by Eukanuba. We can make sure that it’s on the website, so that people can access that study. But it shows a 5 milligram per dog per day dose, regardless of the size of the dog. And that’s a pretty big dose. A lot of times, we only see something like 400 micrograms in a capsule or caplet when it’s purchased over the counter. You have to read the label. You have to make sure that you’re getting the product that you want. It’s one that Revival’s been working on raising the amount of folic acid in their supplements, to make sure that it’s sufficient. The studies show that the dogs that are clinically and genetically predisposed to developing cleft palates, such as the French Bulldog, the Chihuahua, the Bulldog—

Laura Reeves [14:46] Pugs!

Dr. Marty Greer [14:46] Pugs. The short-face brachycephalic dogs are the ones that are at increased risk that they can significantly reduce by 50-60% the incidents of cleft palates in the studies that they’ve done. So really it’s easy to do. The most important thing to remember is you need to start it six weeks before the dog is bred. So you can’t wait until she comes into heat. You need to start looking at your calendar and realizing how soon it is that she’s predicted to come in and get that started. Because it’s a water soluble vitamin, you don’t have to worry about overdosing it. Remember, the thing that we’ve always been told is first do no harm. So that’s where the fat soluble vitamins—A, D, E, and K—those can be stored in the body and cause problems. But the B and C vitamins are not at that risk, so you don’t have to worry about giving too much, other than the cost associated with it. But Sheryl can fill us in a little bit more on the Revival product. 

Sheryl Bradbury [15:36] B Strong has a significant amount of folic acid in it as well and lower amounts of vitamin A, so that you’re not causing problems. Folic acid, though (like Dr. Greer said), we’re working on reevaluating—along with Dr. Morris’ help—all of our formulations to make sure that those products have what they need in them. Like Dr. Greer also said, starting early to supplement with B Strong or other vitamin mineral supplements, so that you are building that reproductive system up to be as healthy as it possibly can be before you breed her. And then putting her on a vitamin mineral supplement during her pregnancy. That’s very important. It’s not just, “Oh! She’s in season. Let’s go get her bred.” 

Laura Reeves [16:20] Right. So I think the next question then becomes: I know I’m going to breed my bitch in 2021. Is it safe to say I know she’s going to come in season eventually, but you know that watched pot thing? It never boils. Is it okay to just start her in January? It sounds like there’s not too much because it’s water soluble—is that correct, Marty? 

Dr. Marty Greer [16:45] That’s correct. I actually got my job at Revival because of B Strong. I just have to tell you this story. I had a client that called and wanted to have me call Doc B. at Revival, whom I’ve since replaced, to ask some questions about reproductions. So I called, and he started to talk to me. He came directly to the phone to talk to me about B Strong, convinced me that I needed to buy a gallon of it, so I did. And I purchased it and started using it on my own personal dogs and client dogs. And I was astonished at how effective it was in changing the cycle of these females. Because we see a lot of females that don’t cycle as often as we’d like. Obviously we need at least four and a half months between the cycles for our fertile cycle to occur, but there were females going nine, ten, eleven, twelve months and clients were getting frustrated and people were waiting for puppies. Of course, that’s even more of a concern right now. But we had people that were becoming impatient and before I would start them on any pharmaceutical agent, I had them start the B Strong. I was really impressed with how many females came into heat within two to four weeks of a time that we did nothing, other than supplement her B Strong—which should tell us a lot about the nutrients that we’re not seeing in the foods and how easy it is to supplement that with just mixing the B Strong into the food or with some of the newer products that we now have that can stand alone. Sheryl can talk about the newer formulations of the B Strong. 

Laura Reeves [18:05] I’m not sure who is going to want to speak to this, but I want to hear what Sheryl has to say about that, and I also am thinking of another one. We were talking earlier about those things you hear from other breeders—your old wives’ tales—do they work, do they not work? Kelp. Kelp was always something. My mother was a breeder and swore by it. Thoughts on kelp?

Dr. Marty Greer [18:28] I have not had any real success with it. I’ve also heard kelp makes black blacker, so black noses and black spots blacker. I don’t know that there’s any documentation of that. Frankly, we don’t have strong documentation on B Strong, other than clinical impressions. So I think a lot of people have perpetuated some of these urban legends or whatever you want to call them. If it works for you and it doesn’t cause harm, I don’t see a problem with it. The cost, of course, that goes with it and making sure that you do no harm are the really important parts to that. If you spend so much money on one supplement that you can’t buy good dog food, then you’ve really upended your breeding program. You really need to start with a good nutritional basis. Start with that. Be sure that what you’re feeding is appropriate for all stages. My personal preferences are that they need to either be on a Royal Canin, Eukanuba, Iams, Purina, or Hill’s Diet, because those are the companies that have research behind their nutritional profiles on how successful they are for all stages. 

Laura Reeves [19:23] Excellent. Okay, Sheryl, speak to me on kelp. What do you know? 

Sheryl Bradbury [19:27] You know, again, I started back in the ’80s, where it was like the Wild West, with all the claims that people made on everything under the sun. We had blue-green algae, we had raspberry stuff. I’d never heard or seen anything good or bad about kelp. Other than the fact that it’s grown under the water and there may be some nutritional value to it, I just haven’t seen a lot about it now. I also don’t believe I’ve ever seen a study or any research as well. It might be relevant, or it might be just one of those…

Laura Reeves [20:01] Wild West old wives tales? 

Sheryl Bradbury [20:04] That still exist today! Like Dr. Greer said, B Strong has been going through some changes. B Strong is now available in a powder, under the Breeder’s Edge brand. It was a product that needed to be evaluated and adjusted, and we made it liver-flavored (instead of licorice-flavored). We are working on a formulation for a liquid product, which is taking a little bit more time because with a product that’s so heavy in vitamins and minerals, keeping those in suspension (so that we’re getting the same amount with every serving) is a difficult thing to do. Trying to make sure that it’s a product that can be used in cats and dogs has been a challenge. We may end up with two formulas at some point in time, but that’s one of the things we’re working on. But the powder is showing itself to be a very good product that breeders are liking. The powderability is great. It is supporting the building of blood in your bitches and in your stud dogs. And it can actually be used for other things, like puppies that need a little bit extra as they're growing. 

Laura Reeves [21:07] Interesting. Well, ladies, thank you so very, very much. I really appreciate your time. I know this will be useful to our breeders who are listening, so that is our goal! To help people. The more you know, the better you do.