Episode 58: Dog Contracts: Concerns and Considerations

This week on the Good Dog Pod, host Laura Reeves is joined by an attorney and a dog trainer to talk about common concerns with contracts between breeders and puppy buyers. Both of our guests are also involved in the dog world as breeders and exhibitors.

What is a “dog contract”? Oftentimes, a breeder will require prospective buyers to sign a basic contract before selling a puppy to them. The contract serves as the foundation of the relationship between the two parties; it lays out the details of the puppy, the price of the puppy, and in most cases, a clause that states the breeder will take back the puppy in the event that the buyer is no longer able to care for it. Good Breeders can access exclusive sample contracts here. 

What are some common concerns regarding contracts? One common issue is when the contract contains a clause that is unenforceable. For the breeder, including a clause that is overly specific and unenforceable, even if it is in the puppy’s best interest, can cause the buyer to stop communication with the breeder. In some instances, one unenforceable clause can also invalidate other clauses in the contract. An example of an unenforceable clause is one that states the buyer must feed the puppy a specific brand of food. There is no way for the breeder to monitor whether or not the owner is following this clause. Another common concern is that an owner is hesitant to go to the breeder with their questions in fear that they accidentally violated a part of the contract. The two parties should keep regular communication so that everything they do is in the dog’s best interest. 

How can I build a good breeder-owner relationship? There are several things both the breeder and owner can do to build a strong relationship. The contract is only a tool to start a connection; both people should be open and empathetic in their conversations about the puppy. The breeder has years of experience with the breed, so they will be the best judge of whether or not the buyer’s lifestyle is a good fit. If there is anything in the contract that the buyer is uncomfortable with, they should start a conversation with the breeder about it. Because the breeder-buyer relationship is for the dog’s entire life, the breeder should choose the buyer carefully, just like the buyer should choose the breeder carefully. 

Transcript

Laura Reeves [0:40] Welcome to the Good Dog Pod! I am your host, Laura Reeves. I’m very excited for today’s conversation. I have with me Jen Amundsen, who is an attorney who specializes in dog law. Dog-savvy lawyer—is that what it is? And Kayley Paylor, who is a dog trainer in Washington state. Ladies, I’d like you to introduce yourselves, but I want to have people know what we’re talking about today. We are going to address the topic of contracts from the perspective of things that are difficult to enforce, things that may be detrimental to the dog or to the owner, and considerations that breeders and buyers should have when they’re looking at these contracts going forward with their dogs. Kayley, why don’t you go ahead and start? Give us a little 411 on you, dear. 

Kayler Paylor [1:36] I got into training after being a dogsitter for quite a while. I went through daycare. I have been working with my own business for about a year and a half now. I’m in an area that has a lot of different clients, so I get the farm dogs that want to have a nice dog in public but also the suburban Doodles. Because I exhibit my own dogs—I have four Azawakh and then a Saluki—I get a lot of purebred referrals as well. I’m seeing a lot of different aspects.

LR [2:08] A cross-section. Awesome! Jen?

Jen Amundsen [2:11] Hello! So I have been a lawyer since 2003. I have been in purebred dogs since just a little before that. I now exhibit my own dogs, and breed my own dogs. As part of my work, I look at contracts—both drafting contracts for breeders sometimes and also reviewing contracts for buyers. Usually, the latter is in the context of when something has gone wrong with their relationship with the breeder. That’s just a little bit of context. It’s nice to consider those before something goes wrong. 

LR [2:48] Exactly. We talk about contracts on a pretty regular basis here on the Good Dog Pod, because Good Dog does offer some sample contracts that are available for you to look at when you’re getting ready to place your puppies. Jen, maybe you can start with some of the types of situations. We understand: this is not legal advice! We’ve got to have the legal disclaimer here. 

JA [3:14] We’ll go ahead and give the disclaimer. Yes, I am a lawyer, but I’m not your lawyer. I’m not the lawyer of anyone listening to the Good Dog Pod. I cannot give legal advice on the Good Dog Pod. This is all, I think, good information, things for people to consider, but I definitely urge everyone to check with their own lawyer before you act on suggestions. 

LR [3:35] Perfect. Now, what are some of the situations you have encountered? And then I want to go to Kayley, because I know she has some very specific ones as well. Areas in a contract that were difficult for either the buyer (where you were reviewing a situation) or suggestions to breeders as to what they might or might not find enforceable or of benefit in the contract?

JA [4:00] The thing that I feel most strongly about (taking it up a level to start with) is using contracts as a tool to facilitate a good relationship between the breeder and the buyer. It’s important because you want to have accountability, which is why you need a contract. But the things that you do or do not put in the contract and how you word them and things that you discuss outside the contract—that all goes into making a good relationship between the buyer and the breeder, which is what we’re looking for. Specific things that I’ve seen—we were just talking about this before we started recording—are, among other things, a requirement that the buyer feed the dog a particular food and particularly a requirement that the buyer purchase said food or maybe supplements from the breeder. One thing we talked about is that not every food is a good fit for every dog, so you might be required as a buyer to feed a specific food. Maybe that food doesn’t agree with your dog, and now you feel kind of stuck. From a buyer prospective, that’s a terrible kind of provision to have in the contract. From a breeder perspective, 1) it’s not going to be enforceable. Unless the contract also comes with a little tiny camera that sits over the dog’s food bowl, you’re never going to know what the people are feeding the dog. So, the better way to handle that would be to recommend a good food as a starting place, as part of your discussions with the buyer, and then talk to them. Have an ongoing discussion. If that food is not doing well with the dog, have them contact you. Work with them. Work with their vet. Just have that relationship. But you’re never going to be able to enforce that. Why would you put something in the contract that’s going to be unenforceable and potentially—depending on the state and maybe the circumstances—could take down other parts of the contract along with it, if that’s deemed unenforceable? Depending on how your contract is written (and if you didn’t have a lawyer draft it), that could be an even bigger problem.

LR [6:03] I think that’s a super interesting point, Jen, that by incorporating something that is unenforceable into your contract, that you can void other parts of the contract as well. 

JA [6:15] Potentially. Depending on the circumstances, the language we put in, but yeah. 

LR [6:21] Kayley, talk to us a little bit about some of what you see from the training side of this. It’s such a great conversation to have both of these perspectives here. This is why I wanted to have this conversation. Talk to us about some of what you see. You just had a recent experience that we were talking about that I thought was a really good illustration of where this can go badly.

KP [6:45] This has actually happened to me, somewhat ironically, three times in the last three weeks. Three different dogs, two different breeders behind those dogs. In all three cases: giant breed dog, owner was a long-time owner of that breed who knows what they’re doing and in many cases have exhibited in competitional obedience and shown their dogs and knows what they’re doing. They came to me for help. And in a class or in a lesson, the dog got away from them, ran up on another dog. In the case of last week, what happened was I was in a class. I was demoing with one of the other dogs in the class. The breed I was working with, a very game breed. Wasn’t going to back down. The giant breed dog got away from its owner and ran off on this other dog. So I’m running interference, stepping on the one dog’s leash, grabbing the other dog, and handing it back to the owner. The reason that this happened is all three giant breed dogs are teenage boys. Teenage Covid puppies. 

LR [7:58] They weigh 150 pounds. 

KP [7:59] The one I was working with was 185 in this instance. The owners had worked them on various tools in the past, but their new contracts with their breeders—and this was a departure from what they’d experienced in the past—was that they could only walk their dog on a flat buckle collar, so just a regular collar or a harness. In these cases, that was not enough for these lovely women (but aging) to be able to control their dog. Whereas using some type of tool, a prong collar, check chain, even a Halti would have helped in that control and given the owner just a second more to check in with their dog. This is something I’m seeing really regularly. I think Jen is 100% right when she says that contracts should be a bridge for the owner and the breeder. That is so much not the case in what I’m seeing. Me, on the training side of things, I see that breakdown in communication. I see the owners completely ashamed to go to their breeder because they’re struggling. I’ve seen that on food. I’ve seen that on tools. I’ve seen that in training styles. I’ve seen that in requirements that are put on the breeder. You have to get a CGC on a guardian breed with a new owner. That’s possible, but really difficult. I’m seeing that breakdown of communication, and I think a lot of the problem is that breeders are saying, “Yeah, my contract works great! I’m keeping my dogs safe.” But they’re not seeing this other side because their buyers are ashamed to go to them.

LR [9:41] Again, such a valuable point. Jen mentioned it earlier. It’s something I feel very, very strongly about. A contract is a tool to start a conversation. A contract should not be turning anyone into a whipping boy. It shouldn’t be used by the buyer to come back at the breeder. It should be, as you said, a bridge to conversation. I think that lots of things develop and change in society. You are a trainer who works with a lot of challenging dogs. There are great ways to work with them, but when you are handicapped by having a limited number of tools available in your toolbox, there’s one problem. You can have an actual dog-on-dog situation. That’s terrifying to me.

KP [10:30] It took a while for my adrenaline to come down for sure. 

LR [10:35] Yeah, being in the middle of that—I can imagine. Are you able to, as a trainer, work with these folks to help them utilize the tools they have or go back to their breeder and say, “Listen, this is the situation”? How are you able to work with them from your end of this continuum that we’re talking about? 

KP [10:57] I am very much a trainer that believes in training the dog in front of me. Very often when owners come to me with restrictions put on them and they’re very hesitant to just ignore them—which, it sounds like from what Jen was saying, they could do because it won’t hold up in court, in some cases. Jen, you’re giving me a face. 

LR [11:17] Jen, we’ll let you address that in just a second!

KP [11:20] When owners really want to honor that contract with the breeder, they want to follow through with what they agreed to, essentially. I can work with that to an extent, but you run into cases where you just need the tools. Or you have a handicapped owner, and it’s just not working. Or the dog is having gastric distress and needs a different food. I can work within that for a certain amount, but there are cases where I do talk to the owner and send them back to their breeder and have them explain. That’s a really tough conversation for them to have a lot of times. The “I’m struggling.” More than once, I’ve seen breeders say, “Well, I’ll just take the dog back then.” Now there’s even more conflict between the breeder and the owner! 

LR [12:05] Exactly. I think probably why people are concerned about mentioning a problem in the first place. We want our breeders to be responsible and be available to have dogs come back to them if there is no other solution. But you hate to see them in that sort of a conflict situation! Jen, you want to talk about this a little bit? Because I think you had some really great points about how people can look at this from the perspective of someone who’s buying a new dog.

JA [12:35] For sure! One thing I just wanted to touch on about what Kayley said was that there certainly are cases where maybe as a buyer you can ignore things that are in a contract without consequences, but as a breeder myself, I would rather craft a contract that people are going to honor, rather than encourage people… I have said to people, “Is this ever really going to come up?” But I don’t like doing that. Because then if they ignore the harness or the prong collar restriction or the food mandate, are they going to ignore the clause that says they have to give the dog back to me if something happens to them? I certainly don’t think that that’s what Kayley was suggesting in any way, but just to make sure that listeners understand the dangers there: it’s a slippery slope, from my perspective. I definitely strongly agree with Kayley that contracts should be a bridge. We’re building bridges, not burning them. I want my puppy buyers to stay in contact with me. Send me those pictures that I can share and I can get excited about seeing what they’re doing with their dog and how happy the dog is. Or contact me if they have issues! I don’t want people to feel shame. “Oh my god, I have to use a choke chain on this teenage giant dog or I can’t control it.” I really want people to feel comfortable. I have had a contract with a breeder of a dog that we previously owned that was perfectly fine. I don’t think there were really any problems with the contract, but there was more than just the contract. The dog came with an entire owner’s manual: here’s what I was feeding him, here’s what I suggest you start out with. There was no “you must feed this food.” There was just a ton of information about her 40 years of experience with this breed and the best thing to start out with, for us, as new owners. That was very, very helpful. It was kind of an adjunct to the contract. Instead of saying something like, “You must obtain a CGC on this puppy,” her contract said, “If you get a title on this puppy, I will give you $50 back off the purchase price.” There are ways to make your point and help your buyers and get to a common goal of getting this dog a healthy, happy life and a good home—without making people feel bad or without, frankly, in my opinion, ripping them off in the case of “You must feed these foods and supplements that I sell you.” There really are ways to get to that goal.

LR [15:23] I think that’s super important. When you’re advising someone who’s looking to acquire a new dog, whether it be a rescue dog—because let’s just face it: rescue organizations also have stipulations about where their dogs will go. When you’re talking to buyers about someone looking for a dog, someone out there in John-Q Public Land looking to acquire a new dog, what are some of your recommendations for those folks about what might be considered out of the norm and something that you could probably safely say there’s another breeder that wouldn’t have that recommendation or that requirement in their contract? 

JA [16:05] I think a very basic contract is: “This is the dog I’m going to sell you. Here’s the price you’re going to pay me.” There should most likely be something about if you can’t keep the dog ever, the dog must come back to me. There might be breeding restrictions like, “I’m selling this dog to you as a pet and companion because it’s unsuitable for breeding,” or whatever the case may be. Those are the things we typically see in contracts. There may be some others. But if there are very nit-picky specific restrictions (“You must do X” or “You may never do Y”) then I would look at those with a jaundiced eye and be skeptical and question the person or organization you’re buying the dog from. If they don’t have a good answer or can’t answer to your satisfaction… To Kaylet’s point, if they have restrictions on training (training devices, training equipment, training methods) and there’s no good reason for that that you can see, I would say, “What if this dog doesn’t respond to this particular type of training that you have mandated in this contract? Then what do we do?” Same thing with food. Food and training needs are probably the two most common things that we see. What if this dog doesn’t respond to the food that you require me to feed? What if it’s discontinued? Then what do we do? Frankly, both of those types of restrictions—I personally would most likely run the other way if the person wouldn’t agree to take those out. I do think they’re likely to be unenforceable and just difficult and a pain. 

LR [17:37] I think, too, what you bring up there is that we as breeders talk to our buyers. We ask them questions. We want to know about their lives and how the dog will live with them and select a good fit for each puppy from a litter in each particular home. But I think it’s important for people who are looking for a dog to ask questions also. It is a two-way conversation. It is not a didactic preaching opportunity. I think that’s important.

JA [18:09] It definitely should be a conversation, in my opinion. It should be an ongoing conversation that continues after you have exchanged the dog and the money or whatever. The other point is dogs began to be sold on a contract because of concerns about pet overpopulation and dogs getting dumped in shelters and things like that. I do think a good contract is important. But I also think that we could go the other way, and we can use it as a tool for shaming people and exerting control that maybe isn’t ours to exert. I’m thinking about these contracts as a corollary with spay/neuter legislation, anti-tethering measures, all these over-reaching legislation that we see also can find a corollary in contracts. On the breeder side, I think we don’t want that stuff done to us. We need to be very careful about doing that to other people. A lot of people might look at it and say, “We’re doing it because we know better.” What’s better for the dog? That’s what your municipality is going to say when they tell you you can only have three dogs or you can only have spayed or neutered dogs. 

LR [19:25] Jen, that is an amazingly good point that has never come into my head and why I love to talk to you, because you have such keen insights on this and I absolutely love that point. I think we, as breeders, in reaction (as we all know) to anti-breeder sentiment or legislation or what have you, want to show that we are absolutely taking our dogs and their best interests to heart. I think that is important. But I also believe it’s important to be fair. Kayley, back on the training piece of it: Talk to us about other types of situations that you’re encountering and advice that you have for people in those situations. Give us the 3-step dog trainer solution to X.

KP [20:20] From a training perspective, I am going to go back to what Jen was saying. Choose your breeder carefully. The number of times that I send people back to their breeder, and they’re like, “Oh, we haven’t talked for 8 months.” I’m like, “Okay, go talk to your breeder! Figure out what’s in the lines. Is this genetic? Is this training? How ingrained is this that I’m working with here?” Choose your breeder really carefully. Choose your trainer carefully. I send people back to the rescue. I send people back to their breeders. Go talk to them. Puzzle this out for me so that I have more information when I’m working with this dog. That is very unfun. That is something I will do because I am in the purebred dog fancy, and I understand how important the breeder–owner relationship is. That is not true of my colleagues who don’t have the same background. 

LR [21:11] I think that is also a super great point, Kayley. The other one I’m going to put into this conversation: Breeders, choose your owners wisely. Perhaps an 80-year-old woman who weighs 90 pounds dripping wet does not need a 185-pound Newfoundland—no matter how much she wants it—for example. We need to, as breeders, take responsibility and be able and willing to say no when a dog, individual, or breed is not a good fit for a specific situation. 

KP [21:45] I’ll take that a step further, though, Laura, and say that if I’m going to tell the 80-year-old woman that she can’t have X giant breed because I don’t think that’s appropriate for her, then it would probably be incumbent upon me to help figure out what is appropriate, if she can have a dog at all. I’m sure that’s where your thought process is going, but just for the listeners, to make sure we say it out loud. 

LR [22:07] Absolutely. People come to me: “I want a German Wirehaired Pointer. I’ve always had this other breed.” Nope! That’s not going to work. Let me suggest to you a couple of other options. Because this dog is so much more dog than, say, for example a Labrador. People come to me from Labradors. I say, “You know what, Labradors are amazing dogs and Wirehaireds are amazing dogs, but they’re not like each other. If you want something like a Labrador, go call Jennifer and get a Clumber Spaniel” because that’s going to be a much closer situation! 

JA [22:42] We have friends now who have a field Spaniel, and they constantly remind me that they have a field Spaniel because they met me at a dog show and expressed interest in Clumbers. At the time, they had a pre-teen son, and I looked at him and I said, “Does your son play with Legos?” And they were like, “Yeah, he loves Legos!” And I said, “You cannot have a Clumber Spaniel. It will eat the Legos. Your son will be sad. Your bank account will be empty. You cannot have a Clumber Spaniel. But here’s this really great field Spaniel breeder that I encourage you to talk to!” 

KP [23:17] I will also say that with breeders, it’s going to be important to have that empathy. Owners sometimes are desperate to get a dog, especially with Covid and dogs being hard to find. Understanding that they are maybe going to say things they shouldn’t or choose things they shouldn’t in order to get that dog—I think the only way to combat that is a) education on the owner side and getting them education and this podcast out to the public but also b) the breeder really having an honest conversation and just understanding. “I understand you really want this breed, but here. Let me find a better fit for you.”

LR [23:58] Maybe an Azawakh isn’t for you, but this rescue Greyhound off the track over here could be a great fit, for example. I think that Kayley said a great word there. Empathy. I’m going to add another one. Grace. Give people grace. Everybody! All the way across the board. I think that goes an incredibly long way to building these bridges, instead of (as Jen said) burning them. Alright, ladies, thank you so very much for your time, your knowledge, your expertise, your commitment to making sure that dogs and people have fabulous lives! We appreciate you.