Episode 87: Feeding Your Dog Right, Part 1

Dr. Mikel Delgado chats with Linda Case, trainer, author and owner of The Science Dog. Linda's latest book, "Feeding Smart with The Science Dog," explores common myths and misconceptions surrounding canine nutrition and feeding practices.

In this episode, Linda talks about what you can do to feed your dog right: understanding key concepts such as digestibility, how important it is to have a feeding routine, what a food being biologically appropriate means, and more.

Listeners of The Good Dog Pod get 15% off the Good Dog merch store with the code GDP15. Go to shop.gooddog.com to redeem this exclusive discount!

If you are interested in entering the giveaway to win Linda's most recent book, "Feeding Smart with The Science Dog," fill out this form: goodbreedercenter.typeform.com/feedingsmart. This giveaway ends on Sunday, March 20th, 2022.

Transcript

Dr. Mikel Delgado [0:25] Hey, everybody! It’s Dr. Mikel Delgado here on this week’s episode of the Good Dog Pod! I’m super excited. We have a very special guest: Linda Case. Let me just tell you a little bit about her. She earned her Bachelor’s in Animal Science from Cornell University and got her Masters in canine and feline nutrition from the University of Illinois, where she taught the undergraduate program in Companion Animal Science. She also taught Companion Animal Behavior and Training at the College of Veterinary Medicine at the University of Illinois for five years. Now, you may be more familiar with her blog, The Science Dog, where she has multiple fantastic nutrition courses available. That’s at thesciencedog.com/science-dog-courses. She’s also a dog trainer at AutumnGold consulting, and she has a brand new book out called Feeding Smart with the Science Dog. However, that’s not her first book. She’s written several books, including Dog Food Logic, Dog Smart, The Dog: Its Behavior, Nutrition, and Health, and several other books. We’re also excited to announce that we are going to be giving away a copy of Linda’s new book as part of this podcast, so to enter the drawing, you just stick around. I’ll be giving all the details away at the end of the episode. Alright, without further ado, let’s hop right in and start learning more about Linda’s work. So, Linda, thank you for being here today. Aside from being an expert on pet nutrition, you’re also a dog trainer and science writer. Can we talk a little about your personal career path, and how you ended up wearing all these really interesting hats?

Linda Case [1:53] Yes! So, first, thank you for inviting me, Mikel. It is a pleasure to be here. I came to dogs very naturally. I was lucky enough to grow up in a very, very pet-centric family. My mom was actually a dog trainer. So I got to grow up training and showing dogs as a hobby with her. Then I went and did my undergrad at Cornell. Like everyone in that day, I was pre-vet. If you like animals at that time in that world, that’s kind of what you had open to you. While at school, I had a wonderful mentor who was an animal sciences professor, and he was actually a horse expert, but he was also a nutrition expert. He taught a course in companion animal nutrition. Oddly enough, I was one of those weirdos who really enjoyed biochemistry, and part of nutrition is biochemistry. I loved his course! When it became time to go to graduate school, I was still training and showing, but at that time, there were not many/any graduate programs in behavior or animal cognition—certainly not training. There are so many more opportunities today. So he suggested that I go to either UC–Davis or the University of Illinois, which both had (and continue to have) very strong companion animal nutrition programs. The reason I ended up here, in Central Illinois, is simple: they gave me money, and I didn’t get as much money/support at Davis, so here I am. And then the writing part just came about. I was actually approached while I was doing the companion animal program in the animal sciences program. There was a dearth of companion animal textbooks, so I was approached by a publisher at that time and was asked if I wanted to start writing, and then I found I really enjoyed writing. In the last few years, I’ve kind of segued from academic writing into more popular and dog-centric writing. 

MD [4:00] Which is so important because it’s really hard to find people who are good at translating the science for pet owners, so I think your voice is just really important. I hope that you get a lot of accolades for your writing, because it’s super important work. We’re talking nutrition this month at Good Dog. People have a lot of opinions/questions/concerns, and they want to make sure they’re doing their best for their dogs. Can we talk a little bit about dog nutritional needs? Let’s talk first about—it seems like a very basic question, but I think it can really get complicated for people, or confusing, which is just: feeding regimens. What are the options? How do people figure out what’s best for their own dogs? How many times a day should they feed their dogs? How important is it to your dog to have a feeding routine? 

LC [4:43] That’s a great question. As far as a routine/a regimen, as opposed to what to feed, I think that that is important. Most nutritionists (myself included) recommend feeding at least twice a day. For the large and giant breeds, three or four times a day is probably a better approach just because of their gut issues. In terms of what to select, that’s the difficult part. I guess the way I would approach that in a general sense is to say there’s no one single way to feed a dog well. The big concerns are ingredient quality and processing. Certainly the source and also safety. But there are many ways to stay within those criteria and still feed a very healthy and healthful diet to the dog. But I would agree that having a regular routine is really important for dogs, just for gut health, and also for the training and behavior aspect, in terms of that bond that we have with our dogs. Feeding time is a time of love and giving and taking care. I think it’s important to us and to our dogs to have that daily routine, and to enjoy that routine with their dogs.

MD [5:54] That’s a great point. It’s not just a chore, right? It’s like: we enjoy our meals, too, hopefully. We sit down and eat together. I want to talk a little bit about ingredients! We’re not going to take too deep a dive because, like you said, there’s many different ways to feed your dog a healthy diet. I think people who are very heavily in one camp or the other are going to stay there. Can we talk a little bit about what is digestibility and should we care about it, as far as what we’re feeding our dogs? What does that mean? 

LC [6:22] Digestibility is probably one of the most basic food attributes or measurements that we can do. It’s really important. I frame this in terms of: it’s really important because of the advice that people are frequently giving, which is feed one food and feed only that feed. If you’ve read any of my books or blogs, you know that I vehemently disagree with that and many nutritionists disagree with it today. But because that is still an adage that is very much promoted by the pet food industry and by some pet experts, digestibility becomes really important because what it is is it’s a measure of how much of that food that you put into your dog (or yourself; it’s the same process) actually makes it into the dog’s body. Digestibility is a measure of how available the nutrients in that food are to the dog themselves. We’re a tube within a tube. Dogs are a tube within a tube. It has to go from the gastrointestinal tract, the stomach, the small intestine and large intestine—into the dog. Digestibility is the way of measuring how many of those nutrients/what proportion of the essential nutrients that are in that food actually nourish the dog.

MD [7:41] Okay, and the rest becomes poop, essentially?

LC [7:45] And other things. We know so much about the gut microbiome today. It’s a fascinating field. I would say poop and other things become more and more important the more we learn that are provided by the gut microbes. It’s not just those undigested nutrients that end up in the poop, which is what we used to think. It’s also these end products of the microbes as well, which might be good, might be bad, might be neutral. 

MD [8:09] Interesting. Okay, age-old question: carnivores versus omnivores? Is there an either/or? What are dogs? How much does it matter?

LC [8:19] I would frame that in terms of thinking about what that even means. As humans, we love to categorize things. It’s how our brains work. We’re pattern-seekers. Those are, to some degree, contrived categories. We tend to think of them as dichotomous. You’re either a carnivore and you’re out there bringing down the caribou or you’re an omnivore, and you’re munching on grass. I don’t know why they tend to think omnivores are more on the herbivore side, but they’re not. All that it is are there are categories that say: This species exists primarily on meat-based foods. This species (the omnivores) basically consume a mixture. So if we look at it from that respect, dogs are technically omnivores. But it’s a continuum. So I would put dogs, probably if we’re going from true carnivores such as the cat (which you would know I’m sure) on the far left, and then maybe bears or raccoons are omnivores, and they’re in the middle. I would say dogs are probably a little left of that. Dogs are omnivores in that they can and do ingest and get nutrients from plant matter. But they also have a pretty strong predatory instinct still. We know from recent studies that, given the option, they will select high-meat products. They will select a high protein food. Dogs are technically omnivores, but on the carnivore side of that. 

MD [9:44] That makes sense. Yes. And I feel like we can’t get away without asking you about carbs and grain-free diets. Obviously you’ve learned a lot of things about these diets in the past few years. I think there’s still a lot of confusion. Are they dangerous? What’s the relationship between proteins and lentils and heart disease? Do you know what the latest science is saying about grain-free diets for dogs?

LC [10:08] I think the most important thing is to drop—what I think is a pejorative term—against the grain-free diets. It’s not grain-free. That we’re really certain of, and it never was. That became more of a marketing ploy, unfortunately, to denigrate certain companies. What we do know is that it’s possible that some of the newer, high-protein ingredients that are plant-based may influence a dog’s taurine status and taurine balance. That has to do with basically how taurine is cycled through the body, how it’s excreted, what the gut microbes do to it. It’s a complicated issue. Even though there is some evidence that if you feed some of these lentils, as you mentioned, the high-legume diets that basically replace some of the animal protein in some of those foods—even the studies that have looked at those still don’t show a change in dog’s overall taurine status. All that they show is that there may be an increased taurine excretion or a decrease in the type of bioacid that is involved in taurine in response to the microbial changes that occur when those fibers from those ingredients end up in the gut. Right now, I think probably the simplest way to put it is it’s not grain-free. Personally, I probably wouldn’t select a food that is really high in some of these newer plant-based proteins, such as pea protein, legumes, lentils. Some is probably not a problem at all, but perhaps when it’s primarily based in those ingredients, I would personally say just be careful how much you feed. 

MD [11:50] Great. Thank you so much for addressing that kind of common, burning question that I think a lot of dog owners have. Everybody, stay tuned! We’ll be right back with Linda Case!

MD [12:26] We are back with Linda Case, author of the new book Feeding Smart with the Science Dog. We’ll be giving away a copy of her new book, so stick around for all the details on how to enter the giveaway. Right now, we’re going to talk more about dog food. One thing we see a lot when people are talking about diets for their dogs is the term “biologically appropriate.” How do you feel about that term? Is it just about marketing? Is this something that we really should be thinking about, as far as the ingredients in our dogs’ food? Is this really about just comparing them to their ancestors? Or is there more to it?

LC [12:58] First of all, it’s 100% a marketing term. There is no one out there who is scientifically studying “biologically appropriate” or “biologically inappropriate.” That is a marketing term. However, I think the implication there is to try and feed dogs as naturally as possible. But that is rife with problems as well, because what is natural? We have all types of things that are natural in our environment but that will kill you if you eat them. And we also do many things with our dogs that aren’t natural. We spay and neuter them. We give them vaccines. We give them medications that, by any stretch of the imagination, are not considered natural. That’s problematic as well. I think, personally, from a nutrition aspect, the most important thing to pay attention to, rather than putting some label on it (carnivore/omnivore/biologically inappropriate or whatever you want to call it) is to pay attention to source of ingredients and their quality and, more and more, we know so much about the effects of processing. I’ve been in the industry long enough to have followed this. Early on, whenever we talk about processing (and in the human food industry as well) we were primarily concerned with the loss of nutrients. Primarily thermoprocessing, but there’s mechanical processing. There’s other types of handling that are considered processing. It can cause a loss of nutrients. Even freezing does. That was our primary focus. Okay, then we’ll just put these nutrients back after we process it. But now we know that there are actually some byproducts of processing itself that may have negative health implications. Again, this is true with human foods as well. Processing is becoming increasingly important to pay attention to, and certainly ingredient sources.

MD [14:46] So when you’re thinking about processing, how should people even assess this food versus that one? Or is it like you have to write to the company and find out what they’re doing? Have you been in a pet food processing plant? 

LC [14:59] Yes.

MD [14:59] What’s that like? 

LC [15:02] I don’t think we should go there. Yes, I have been, primarily in kibble because that’s still the primary type of food that we produce. I think the really exciting thing is that there are many options for people today, not just kibble. We have freeze-dried. We have dehydrated. We have human grade. We have raw. Those are all less processed. Probably the most highly processed food that we can get is kibble, because it’s been processed twice. When you get an animal meal that’s processed through rendering, and then the second process is extrusion itself. If you are interested in reducing the proportion of processed foods that your dog consumes, then it is probably advisable to look at some of the fresh-frozen foods or even raw if it’s produced using HPP processing to make sure that it’s safe. Freeze-dried and dehydrated—those are all options that are less highly processed than your typical kibble. 

MD [16:09] Completely unrelated question, but I was looking over some of your recent blog posts, and you had summarized a study about French Bulldogs and their farting. I think it was a good opening to talk about dog farts. I think some people have dogs that have gas/flatulence. Why is that? Did you learn anything from the study you reviewed? I actually went down a little rabbit hole. There’s a whole area of science dedicated to dog flatulence basically, involving little suits/vests that they put on the dogs to measure the gas and everything. Anyway, can we talk dog farts for a minute?

LC [16:46] We absolutely can! Those flatulent Frenchies! Yeah, I was unaware that French Bulldogs were notorious for that until I found that study; that was news to me. Of course, I got tons of emails from French Bulldog owners that said, “Yeah, it’s a thing!” So, prior to writing it, I was aware—and this is actually one of those myths that we can break right now—it’s very common for people to have blamed their dog’s flatulence on starches and on grains. I think the reason is that they think dogs just have a lot of fiber in them and fiber is broken down in the gut, and that causes gas. To some degree, that’s true. But we also know that because of the type of processing that’s done with many of the animal source of proteins that go into dog foods, that protein (especially damaged protein or low quality protein) that ends up in the large intestine is going to be fermented by microbes in the large intestine. It’s the end products that those microbes produce that are really stinky and cause feces to smell really bad and also bad-smelling flatulence. So I feel like grains were maligned for no reason. It was interesting because I would often have people say to me, “Well, I fed my dog with food that was high in corn. Corn is very inexpensive. And he had a lot of flatulence. So it was the corn.” But what tends to go with inexpensive grains (corn) is inexpensive animal protein meals. So my response to that would be: it was most likely the poor-quality protein in that food that caused the problem, rather than the corn. One of the things that that study did not answer that I really want to see answers to was, again, the effects of processing of protein because protein is damaged by processing. There’s no question about that. It’s just a matter of degrees. That particular study just compared different kibbles made with different protein sources. What I’d like to see is, again, different processing effects on flatulence. 

MD [18:54] More science to be done! There’s always more science. Before we wrap up for today, you just put out your new book. Obviously this is not your first book about dog food. You’ve done a lot of research. Can you tell us just a little bit about the process of writing your book? What kind of research did you have to do to put together this information?

LC [19:15] Sure. Dog Food Logic was 5-6 years ago. That was kind of a—I wouldn’t say expose—but definitely delved pretty deeply into the pet food industry and hopefully helped people to hone their critical thinking skills, which we all always need to work on, and to learn to select the food with a critical eye. This newest book—I really wanted to answer many of the questions that people have about feeding their dogs well, about pet food ingredients, about foods, and about feeding regimens. I divided the book into five areas, and then came up with questions that there actually were research studies using for the past 4-5 years to help to answer those questions. Even if the book is not complete in terms of every single question a pet owner might have about food, I think it covers a pretty wide breadth of those questions. So the blog certainly helped with that. A lot of the essays that are in the book originated on the blog, and then were modified for the book. Some actually came out of just research I saw: oh, that should help to answer this particular question! Even though it’s a scientific book, it’s very applied. How can we use science to actually feed our dogs more healthfully? 

MD [20:34] What a fantastic resource for dog owners everywhere! Linda Case’s new book, Feeding Smart with the Science Dog—stick around a few more seconds, and I’ll be telling you how to enter our drawing to win a free copy of Linda’s book. Also come back next week, when we have our second part of our interview with Linda Case. We’re going to be talking about some of the pet food industry research practices and things about AFCO and products and ingredients, so we’ll dive deeper into this next week on the Good Dog Pod. Thanks for listening, everyone! See you next week.